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I have 1997 saturn . when the engine reaches operating ...


Sent to Car Experts May 17, 2006 8:05 p.m.

I have 1997 saturn .
when the engine reaches operating temp. it will stall and not restart until the engine has cooled in about 15 to 20 min.
I have checked all fuses and voltages.

Optional Information:
1997 Saturn SL1 1.9 L SOHC

Already Tried:
checked fuses and all voltages
Customer (name blocked for privacy)
Status: Closed   Value: $15   
Info Request
May 17, 2006 8:20 p.m. (14 minutes and 52 seconds later)
REPLIED to Info Request Check Mark

Is or has the check engine light lit?

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"It is much wiser and cost efficient to ask a question than to stumble blindly through your auto repairs".Please Click Accept if my answer was helpful.
PictureMichael  -- Auto Service Technician -- 99% Positive Feedback on 597 Car Accepts
21yrs.Foreign and domestic driveability diagnosis and repair/ ASE Cert./Fuel Injection Specialist.
Reply to Michael
Sent May 17, 2006 8:41 p.m. (21 minutes and 26 seconds later)

no the check engine light has not come on.
I do not have a code scanner, but I can get one.
the car runs fine and stalls without missing a beat with no lights,preformace problems or drivability problems.It has been a good car and have no problems until now.This car has less than 60k on it.
Please help.

Thanks!
Customer (name blocked for privacy)
Answer
May 17, 2006 9:19 p.m. (37 minutes and 40 seconds later)
REPLIED Check Mark

Ideally you would need to isolate what you are missing when it will not restart after it stalls.I will provide with a few tests to perform the next time you have the problem.There are no Service Bulletins or Recalls for what you are experiencing.A common failure would be an overheating ignition module which is mounted below the ignition coils on the front of your engine there.It's a poor design if you ask me,because it gets too hot there.Maybe it was designed that way so they could sell more modules and coilsImages available only to Customers.

Darn engineers.Along with the other tests i provide you with I will add the Testing ,removal and replacement of that module and/or coil pack.Let me know if the check engine light is or has been on.

Here are the procedures to check for a no start on a fuel injected engine.It will require a couple diagnostic tools that you do nt most likely posess,but may be able to obtain through a tool loan or rental program at many parts stores.

In order for an engine to run it needs the following:

1. Fuel (Fuel pressure gauge)
2. Spark (In line Spark tester)
3. Injector pulse (Noid Lights)
4. Air/Compression

You must determine which one or more is missing to proceed.

You can reduce the troubleshooting by spraying carb clean or a little ether into the intake throttle body to see if it attempts to start.If it does, then there is a problem with fuel delivery and not ignition.This will tell you whether or not there is fuel being delivered and isolate the issue to fuel pressure/delivery or injector control circuits.

You can check for spark at a spark plug wire while cranking with a flat tip driver or in line spark tester inserted into the plug wire boot and placed close to any metal part on the engine besides the fuel system lines and fittings or just plugged back onto the spark plug if using an inline tester.

For your 1997 SATURN SL1:

FUEL SYSTEM PRESSURE 38-44 PSI(POUNDS PER SQUARE INCH)

POSITION THE IGNITION SWITCH AND THE A/C SYSTEM IN THE
OFF POSITION. INSTALL A FUEL PRESSURE GAUGE TO THE
VEHICLES FUEL PRESSURE TEST PORT.
CONFIRM THAT NO LEAKS ARE PRESENT, AND WITH THE KEY
ON, ENGINE OFF VERIFY THE PSI READING ON THE GAUGE.


To check injector pulse you will need a noid light set which can be purchased at your local parts store or through tool rental or loan programs as mentioned above.(Picture below)The light should flash when the engine is cranked while plugged into the injector connector.

To check for air just make sure the air filter is not totally restricted.

To check compression install compression gauge in each cylinder,crank engine,record reading for each cylinder.Look for a big variance between cyls.

If all of this is OK you may have contaminated fuel.

Please post back with your results so that we may help you through you car trouble.

Images available only to Customers.

Ignition Module and Coils:

See Figure 1

When it is suspected that one or more spark plugs may not be firing and the spark plug wires do not seem to be at fault, this test offers a quick check to see if the ignition module and coil packs are producing spark voltage.

>CAUTION The DIS system produces extremely high voltages. Never disconnect or touch a system component while the engine is running or the key is in the RUN position. Furthermore, it is always safest to disconnect the negative battery cable before servicing any system components. Turn the ignition to the OFF position, then tag and disconnect all 4 spark plug wires from the ignition module towers.

  1. Make sure that you are not touching the vehicle, then have an assistant crank the engine for a few seconds. Sparks should appear alternately between each pair of ignition coil towers while the engine is cranking.

Do not crank the engine for more than a few seconds at a time or starter damage may occur. Crank the engine for a few seconds, then release the ignition key and pause for an equal amount of time before cranking the vehicle again.

  1. If sparks appear between the 2 towers, the DIS module, Crankshaft Position Sensor (CPS) and the ignition coil packs are known to be good.

  2. If a single coil pack is suspect from an initial spark test, or no sparks appeared between its 2 towers, switch the coil pack to the opposite position on the ignition module (the coil packs are interchangeable) and check to see if the problem follows it. If the problem follows, the coil pack must be replaced. If the formerly good coil pack does not produce spark when switched with the suspect coil on the module, and the suspect coil works in the new position, then the ignition module is bad and must be replaced. Also, using an ohmmeter, check the resistance across the suspect coil' towers; it should be 7,000-10,000 ohms.

  3. If no spark can be found across any tower, proceed with the NO SPARK TEST.

Click image to see an enlarged view
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Fig. 1: Using an ohmmeter to check resistance across the towers of the ignition coil pack



REMOVAL & INSTALLATION

See Figures 2, 3, 4 and 5

  1. Properly disable the SIR system, if equipped, and disconnect the negative battery cable.

  2. Label and disconnect the spark plug wires from the DIS ignition module located on the front side of the bell housing.

  3. Unfasten the electrical connectors from the ignition module.

  4. Remove the 4 retaining bolts and the DIS unit.

  5. If necessary, the coils may be removed from the unit at this time by using a pair of needlenose pliers to squeeze the retaining tabs while pulling the coils upward.

To install:

  1. If removed, install the coils to the ignition module by aligning the coils with the module terminals, then carefully guiding the coils into position.

  2. Run a 6 x 1.0mm tap through the module mounting holes on the bell housing to remove any remaining thread sealant residue and verify that the module and bell housing mating surfaces are clean and free from grit or dirt.

  3. Always use new module mounting bolts. Install the ignition module/coil assembly using the new bolts equipped with factory applied thread sealant and tighten the bolts to 61 inch lbs. (7 Nm) using a torque wrench. Be careful when tightening the mounting bolts, and verify that each bolt head is properly seated on the module unit when tightened. If a bolt is not properly seated when the torque reaches the proper specification, remove the bolt and clean the bore threads again using the tap.

  4. Attach the electrical connectors and spark plug wires to the module unit. Make sure the spark plug wires are properly connected to avoid engine damage.

  5. Connect the negative battery cable and, if equipped, properly enable the SIR system.

  6. Start the engine and check operation.

Click image to see an enlarged view
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Fig. 2: Label and disconnect each spark plug wire from the ignition coil pack


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Fig. 3: Disengage the ignition module wiring connector(s)


Click image to see an enlarged view
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Fig. 4: Loosen and remove the ignition coil pack mounting bolts


Click image to see an enlarged view
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Fig. 5: Remove each ignition coil pack from the vehicle


Let me know how you make out and please click my ACCEPT button if this is helpful.Bonuses are GREATLY appreciatedImages available only to Customers.



__________________
"It is much wiser and cost efficient to ask a question than to stumble blindly through your auto repairs".Please Click Accept if my answer was helpful.

PictureMichael  -- Auto Service Technician -- 99% Positive Feedback on 597 Car Accepts
21yrs.Foreign and domestic driveability diagnosis and repair/ ASE Cert./Fuel Injection Specialist.
Reply to Michael
Sent May 23, 2006 7:18 p.m. (5 days and 21 hours later)

I have replaced the ing. (coils) and the ing.module. Started the car and still dies after reaching operating temp. Still with no codes or warning of problems.The last time I started it it was in the driveway after replacing above parts and just quit. I followed the instuctions with the parts I bought including chasing the threades and the cleaning of all surfaces for proper grounding of the ing.

what next?

Thanks
Customer (name blocked for privacy)
Answer
May 24, 2006 8:04 a.m. (12 hours and 45 minutes later)
REPLIED Check Mark

You must follow the instructions in the last post.I do not recommend throwing parts at the issue.You must isolate the problem to loss of spark,fuel,injector pulse,compression or any combo thereof.There are literally hundreds of things that can cause this.You need to isolate with the above tests.If you cannot perform the tests for some reason,than take the car to a professional.Otherwise you will continually and needlessly replace good parts with no results.An issue like this one should not take more than an hour to diagnose and most shops charge an average of $50 an hour labor for diagnosis.You've already wasted that much in parts.

__________________
"It is much wiser and cost efficient to ask a question than to stumble blindly through your auto repairs".Please Click Accept if my answer was helpful.
PictureMichael  -- Auto Service Technician -- 99% Positive Feedback on 597 Car Accepts
21yrs.Foreign and domestic driveability diagnosis and repair/ ASE Cert./Fuel Injection Specialist.
Reply to Michael
Sent May 24, 2006 8:17 p.m. (12 hours and 13 minutes later)

I do agree with your diagnosis and having the car taken to a shop. I will report back with the results. Maybe I can help others.

ON HOLD!!!

Thanks
Customer (name blocked for privacy)
Info Request
May 25, 2006 11:34 a.m. (15 hours and 17 minutes later)

Hello,Thanks for your question.Please don't forget to click my ACCEPT Button if my answer is helpful.I do not recieve a small portion of your deposit or offer unless you click my ACCEPT button.I receive a larger percentage of a Bonus than I do of the question value.So bonuses are GREATLY appreciated.So if I was of any help at all here, please return and click my Accept button or I receive nothing for trying to help you out.Thanx,Michael.

__________________
"It is much wiser and cost efficient to ask a question than to stumble blindly through your auto repairs".Please Click Accept if my answer was helpful.
PictureMichael  -- Auto Service Technician -- 99% Positive Feedback on 597 Car Accepts
21yrs.Foreign and domestic driveability diagnosis and repair/ ASE Cert./Fuel Injection Specialist.

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