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I have a 2002 GMC Savana Van. 5.7 V8, Purchased new, we ...

Sent to Car Experts June 22 09:58 PM

I have a 2002 GMC Savana Van. 5.7 V8, Purchased new, we store it winters. As it only has 17,000 miles on it. This spring it was running rough. Maybe stale gas, changed gas filter. Fresh fuel. Then it quit all togeather. Pulled distributor cap. Very badly caked on coroded terminals. Changed cap, rotor and pick-up just to be sure. Starts and runs, but misses. Check engine light comes on. Read out shows P0308 CODE "CYLINDER 8 MISSING. Changed plug in cyl. 8. Still getting same fault code.

 

Optional Information:
GMC savana 5.7

Customer (name blocked for privacy)
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June 22 10:11 PM (5 minutes and 15 seconds later)
         
Reply to amedee's Post: no I have not changed the wires. The plug lead for cyl no.8 has 915 ohms of rsistance. The wires only have 17000 miles on them.
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June 22 10:20 PM (7 minutes and 1 second later)
         
Reply to amedee's Post: when van was still under warranty, engine light came on. dealer at that time told me that the distibuter vent was clogged. This time I sprayed W-D 40 on the screen and blew it out with compressed air.I will change plug wire to no. 8 tomorrow. if it workes I will gladly send the money your way. Thank you.
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June 22 10:28 PM (6 minutes and 38 seconds later)
         
Reply to amedee's Post: I will. is their any service bulltin on this distributor. about it corroding so soon. and the vent getting clogged.
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June 23 7:26 PM (20 hours and 50 minutes and 58 seconds later)
         
Reply to amedee's Post: amedee, ordered the plug wire today 6-23-06 be in Monday. Also removed screens from distributor per service bullitin.
Answer
June 23 8:36 PM (1 hour and 10 minutes and 14 seconds later)
         
ACCEPTEDCheck Mark
I work very hard to get u correct answers and to save u money. If this has helped in anyway, by fixing the problem, or even by narrowing the problem down, please hit the accept button. If my answer is unclear or if u need more info, dont be afraid to ask. Thanks!
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June 29 11:13 AM (5 days and 14 hours later)
         
Reply to amedee's Post: amedee, sorry I did not get back to you sooner. Installed original equipment plug wire. Removed vent screens in distributor ( per service bulletin ). Logged 29 miles so far no CHECK ENGINE LIGHT. Engine   is looping at idle slighly, thinking about adding bottle of injector cleaner/gas treatment.
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July 1 12:01 AM (1 day and 4 hours later)
         
Reply to amedee's Post: idle is not smooth. the engine light has not come on so i asume it is not misfiring. runs smooth going down the road.the idle is just fluctuating
Answer
July 1 11:51 AM (11 hours and 49 minutes and 34 seconds later)
         
REPLIEDCheck Mark
A fluctuating idle usually indicates a vaccum leak. With the engine idling, open the hood and listen for a hissing sound. It could be anything from a vaccum line to intake manifold gaskets.
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July 9 12:57 PM (8 days and 1 hour later)
         
Reply to amedee's Post: well the check engine light is back on. No. 8 cyl. is still misfiring. added Lucas fuel injector cleaner today with fresh tank of gas. erased code and going on a 150 mile trip. see if comes on again. do not hear any air (engine vac) noises.
Answer
July 9 4:03 PM (3 hours and 5 minutes and 47 seconds later)
         
REPLIEDCheck Mark
Sounds like u have a plugged injector or poppet valve. If u have spark, and compression, tune up parts have been changed, and the plug is not cracked, the only thing that is left is the injector.
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July 10 9:43 AM (17 hours and 39 minutes and 42 seconds later)
         
Reply to amedee's Post: do you un-plug the injector in some way or replace it.if replacement is the answer does this engine have a injector in the valve body or one injector per cyl. ? what and where is a poppet valve ?
Answer
July 10 6:56 PM (9 hours and 13 minutes and 45 seconds later)
         
REPLIEDCheck Mark
The plastic intake will need to be removed. The injectors or poppet valves in your case they are the same, will come as a unit. All 8 poppet valves will look like a giant spider. Here is a tsb for plugged injecotrs.
Bulletin No.: 03-06-04-030A

Date: June 24, 2004

TECHNICAL

Subject:
Multiple Driveability Symptoms Due to Clogged Fuel Injectors (Clean Injectors)
Models

Supercede:

This bulletin is being revised to update the procedure, models and model years. Please discard Corporate Bulletin Number 03-06-04-030 (Section 06 - Engine).

Condition

Some owners may comment on driveability symptoms of long or hard starts, chuggle, rough idle and light or intermittent misfire. The malfunction indicator lamp (MIL) may also illuminate.

Cause

Due to various factors, the fuel injectors may become restricted. Extensive testing has demonstrated that fuel related issues are the cause of clogged injectors. At this point, no specific fuel, fuel constituent, or engine condition has been identified as causing the restriction. The restriction causes the engine to operate at a lean air fuel ratio. This may either trigger the MIL to illuminate or the engine to develop various driveability symptoms.

Correction

Fuel injector restrictions, deposits, can be cleaned on the vehicle using the following procedure. Under NO circumstances should this procedure be modified, changed or shortened.

Note: The recommended mixture amount of GM Top-Engine Cleaner has been increased from 5% used in prior procedures to 10%. This increase was implemented to improve the effectiveness of the injector cleaning procedure. Follow the cleaning procedure carefully to minimize the risk of fuel system damage. Testing has demonstrated that exceeding the 10% cleaning solution concentration does not improve the effectiveness of this procedure. GM Top-Engine Cleaner is the only injector cleaning agent approved for use with General Motors fuel system components. Other injector cleaners may cause damage to plastics, plated metals or bearings. General Motors has completed extensive laboratory testing of GM Top-Engine Cleaner, and can assure its compatibility with General Motors fuel system components, as long as the cleaning procedure is followed correctly.

Important: This bulletin recommends the use of pre-measured containers of GM Top-Engine Cleaner, P/N 12346535, - U.S. USAGE ONLY. Pre-measured containers eliminate the need to measure the amount of GM Top-Engine Cleaner being added to the J 35800-A, injector cleaning tool. In Canada, use P/N 992872. It will be necessary to measure and dispense Top Engine Cleaner into the J 35800-A, injector cleaning tool.

Fretting is a term used to describe a tiny rubbing motion that occurs between two surfaces. Fretting corrosion refers to a build up of insulating, oxidized debris that forms on electrical connections due to a fretting action at the contact points. Injector vibration, engine vibration, and electrical harness movement are contributors to the fretting motion.

Depending on how large the build-up of oxide is will determine how drastic the effect will be on the injector circuit. Worst case is a total loss of continuity in the connection resulting in P0200 (Injector Circuit Fault) and P0300 (Misfire) codes being set. If the oxides create a high resistance circuit, insufficient current will be available to properly open the injector, resulting in unstable fuel delivery and ultimately a P0300 DTC. High resistance in the circuit will not necessarily set a DTC P0200. Keep in mind that a connection with fretting corrosion is unstable. Since movement causes fretting, any vibration may create a condition where the connection varies from an open circuit, to a high resistance connection, to a good connection.

Important: Unless intermittent mis-fire due to fretting corrosion is suspected when servicing 3.1 L and 3.4L engines, skip steps 1 through 4. Steps 1 through 4 may be performed at a future date when the upper intake is removed.

When servicing 2.8L, 3.5L or 4.2L engines (VINs 8, 6, S - RPOs LK5, L52, LL8) skip steps 1 through 4 unless replacing injectors.

1. Disconnect one injector electrical connector.

2. Apply a small amount, about the size of a BB, of dielectric grease, P/N 12377900 (in Canada, P/N 10953529) to the female terminal. Be sure to cover both cavities.

3. Reconnect electrical connector to injector.

4. Repeat steps 1 through 3 for all remaining injectors.

5. Using the Tech 2(R), perform an injector balance test using the procedure in the appropriate Service Manual. Use the Tech 2(R) to select each individual injector. Record the pressure drop of each injector on the repair order.





Important: When replacing injectors be sure to add dielectric grease to injector electrical connectors.

The pressure drop is greater than or equal to 20 kPa. Injectors 1 and 3 appear to be lean when compared to injectors 2, 4, 5 and 6. Clean and re-test pressure drop. If cleaning does not restore flow on injectors 1 or 3, replace the detective injector or injectors as necessary. Charge time to labor operation J5650.


Injector Cleaning Procedure

Note: GM Top-Engine Cleaner is the only injector cleaning agent recommended. DO NOT USE OTHER CLEANING AGENTS, AS THEY MAY CONTAIN METHANOL WHICH CAN DAMAGE FUEL SYSTEM COMPONENTS. Under NO circumstances should the GM Top-Engine Cleaner be added to the vehicle fuel tank, as it may damage the fuel pump and other system components.

Do not exceed a 10% cleaning solution concentration. Higher concentrations may damage fuel system components. Testing has demonstrated that exceeding the 10% cleaning solution concentration does not improve the effectiveness of this procedure.

During this procedure, you will need a total of 960 ml (32.4 oz) of cleaning solution (10% Top Engine Cleaner/90% Regular Unleaded Gasoline). That is two tanks of solution for the J 35800-A Fuel Injector Cleaner Tank. Other brands of tools may have a different capacity and would, therefore, require more or less tanks to complete the procedure. You must use all 960 ml (32.4 oz) of solution (10% Top Engine Cleaner/90% Regular Unleaded Gasoline) to insure complete injector cleaning.

Important: Vehicles with less than 100 miles (160 km) on the odometer should not have the injectors cleaned. These vehicles should have any out of specification injectors replaced.

1. For U.S. dealers, empty 2 pre-measured GM Top-Engine Cleaner containers, 24 ml (0.812 oz) each, P/N 12346535, into the J 35800-A, injector cleaning tank. For Canadian Dealers, measure and dispense 48 ml (1.62 oz) of Top-Engine Cleaner, P/N 992872, into the J 35800-A, injector cleaning tank. If you are using any other brand of tank, you will need a total of 96 ml (3.24 oz) of Top-Engine Cleaner mixed with 864 ml (29.16 oz) of regular unleaded gasoline.

2. Fill the injector cleaning tank with regular unleaded gasoline. Be sure to follow all additional instructions provided with the tool.

3. Electrically disable the vehicle fuel pump by removing the fuel pump relay and disconnecting the oil pressure switch connector, if equipped.

4. Turn the ignition to the Off position.

5. Relieve fuel pressure and disconnect the fuel feed and return lines at the fuel rail. Plug the fuel feed and return lines coming off the fuel rail with J 37287, J 42873 or J 42964 as appropriate for the fuel system.

6. Connect the J 35800-A to the vehicle fuel rail.

7. Pressurize the J 35800-A to 510 kPa (75 psi).

8. Start and idle the engine until it stalls, due to lack of fuel. This should take approximately 15-20 minutes.

9. Turn the ignition to the Off position.

10. Refill the J 35800-A injector cleaning tank per steps 1 and 2.

11. Start and idle the engine until it stalls, due to lack of fuel. This should take approximately 15-20 minutes.

12. Turn the ignition to the Off position.

13. Disconnect J 35800-A from the fuel rail.

14. Reconnect the vehicle fuel pump relay and oil pressure switch connector, if equipped.

15. Remove the J 37287, J 42873 or J 42964 and reconnect the vehicle fuel feed and return lines.

16. Start and idle the vehicle for an additional 2 minutes to ensure residual injector cleaner is flushed from the fuel rail and fuel lines.

17. Repeat Step 5 of the Injector Balance Test and record the fuel pressure drop from each injector.

18. Subtract the lowest fuel pressure drop from the highest fuel pressure drop. If the value is less than 15 kPa, no additional action is required. If the value is greater than or equal to 15 kPa, replace the injector assembly with the lowest fuel pressure drop. Follow injector replacement procedures outlined in the appropriate Service Manual Information for the vehicle. Repeat balance test to ensure that all injectors fall within 15 kPa.

19. Add one ounce (30 ml) of Fuel System Treatment, P/N 12345104 (Canada P/N 89020804), to the vehicle fuel tank for each gallon (3.78 L) of gasoline estimated to be in the fuel tank. Instruct the customer to add the remainder of the bottle of Fuel System Treatment to the vehicle fuel tank at the next fill-up.

20. Advise customer to change brands of fuel and to add GM Fuel System Treatment at every oil change. Regular use of GM Fuel System Treatment should keep the customer from having to repeat the injector cleaning procedure.

21. Road test the vehicle to verify that the customer concern has been corrected.

Edited by amedee on July 10 2006 at 6:58 PM
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July 11 5:50 PM (22 hours and 53 minutes and 36 seconds later)
         
Reply to amedee's Post: the light is back on. gave up took it to the dealer. tried injector cleaner, no help. told me compression on No. 8 is 100psi the other 7 cyls. 150psi. said that I need valve work. I am very upset that a vehicle that I bought brand new from them and only logger 17,856 miles, stored winters, needs valve work. I know the warranty, time wise, is over but not even half the miles. estimate 1600.00. This story is about as funny as my 2002 explorer needing all four wheel bearings replaced. and now the rear end is whinning and they tell me that Ford is having problems with 02 explorer diffs. Next time I go car shopping I am not ruling out the non-domestic brands.
Answer
July 11 7:42 PM (1 hour and 51 minutes and 39 seconds later)
         
REPLIEDCheck Mark
I agree. Let me tell u a tip. A cylinder that has been washed down with gas will loose some compression. Gas is a cleaner and oil is a sealer. Therefore the oil on the cylider walls will be washed down if the injector is stuck open and results in low compression. Go get yourself a compression gauge, disconnect the fuel pump fuse and crank it over for about 10 seconds. Do that 2 or 3 times and then check compression. If compression has risen to within 10 psi or so of the other cylinders, than your ok. The injector just needs to be replaced. This is more often the case. Good luck!

Edited by amedee on July 11 2006 at 7:43 PM
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July 24 10:27 AM (12 days and 14 hours later)
         
Reply to amedee's Post: update: from the begining. change no. 8 plug, then the plug wire, injector cleaner, engine carbon cleaner through the vac. hose, compression check, tear down, no. 8 has bent intake valve. showes no mech. damage. so what caused a bent valve on a new veh. with 17,856 miles on the odometer? out of warranty by 2years but not half the miles. I think it was assembled that way, and showed up now because it was stored more than it was driven. dealer is contacting rep. on good will warranty with as much as a 300.00 deductable, he thinks. what do you think?
Answer
July 24 1:10 PM (2 hours and 43 minutes and 4 seconds later)
         
REPLIEDCheck Mark
About the warranty or the valve being bent?
Reply
July 24 9:06 PM (7 hours and 56 minutes and 4 seconds later)
         
Reply to amedee's Post: about the valve stem being bent. with no mech. damage on the valve face, top of piston or any where. GM is going to buck up and pay the bill except for 250.00 deductable and a 142.00 charge for induction cleaning, I can live with that.
Answer
July 25 10:21 AM (13 hours and 15 minutes and 28 seconds later)
         
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